Tag: Breakpoint

Fabrication Pricing, Labor and Product Information

7 Dec 2021 Darren Young

I have a lot of people ask how Pricing, Labor and Product Information (ProdInfo) works in Autodesk Fabrication. It’s a simple concept once you understand it. But it’s also rarely illustrated graphically so I’ll attempt a more graphical explanation here.

At it’s core Product Information requires the use of an ID, sometimes referred to as a Database ID. Pricing and Labor can be handled two separate ways depending how you need to price and labor your items. One of those ways is using Product Listed Pricing and/or Labor. When using Product Listed Prices or Labor, you also use an ID.

Generally speaking, 100% of your parts should have and ID. ID’s should also be unique without a very good reason for duplication. There are a couple good reasons to duplicate ID’s across content but we won’t get into that here. If this article is helpful to you, those reasons would only serve to complicate the issue at this point.

Product Information & Product Listed Prices & Labor

When you have an ID associated with your ITM content, that ID serves as the “Glue” to tie together all the other database tables in Autodesk Fabrication. An ITM with an ID, looks up that ID in the Product Information database to find the related product information. IT also does the same for Pricing, Fabrication Labor and Installation Labor.

The following images shows where the ID is stored in your ITM Content. For ITM’s which are NOT Product Listed, you simply type the ID into the “Code” field from the Properties window.

For Product Listed ITM’s, it’s handled slightly different. You add the ID column to the Product List and add the ID’s there. When you add a product listed ITM to your model or takeoff, the value of the ID for the size you select gets automatically placed in the “Code” property. When that ITM is merely sitting in your library on disk, the value here doesn’t matter. It can be blank or any one of the ones in the Product List. Adding the ITM to your model then updates it to the proper ID.

Product Information

Product Information or ProdInfo for short lists additional data about the fitting or item. The following image shows the related data in ProdInfo with the ID column outlined.

In addition to standard product information, you can also change to a Supplier view of ProdInfo where you can add additional columns for any other types of data or numbers you want to track. The following image shows some added data fields like UPC Code and Harrison HPH codes.

Pricing

The following image shows a Product Listed Pricing Table. The ID is outlined. Here’s where you can add pricing information to the ID of the ITM. Note, the term Product Listed Price here is a little confusing because “Product Listed” prices can apply to non-product listed ITM’s. While an ITM may not contain a “Product List“, the pricing table is still a “List of Products” that are referenced by ID.

Labor (Fabrication & Installation)

In the same way Price List’s work, Fabrication and Installation Labor work in a similar way. Product Listed labor can apply to any ITM, Product Listed or not as long as it has an ID. The following image shows Fabrication labor but Installation Labor works identically.

Breakpoint Pricing & Labor

A second way to specify Price and Labor doesn’t require ID’s because they’re not looked up from a list. These would be Breakpoint Price and Labor tables. With this type of Price or Labor table, you build a 1d or 2d Breakpoint Table that uses the part’s size as a guide to look up the proper price or labor rate in a matrix.

Price Breakpoint

The following image shows a Pricing Breakpoint table. You can make more than one breakpoint grid and have each apply to a different material if you have the need.

Labor (Fabrication & Installation) Breakpoint

Similar to a Price Breakpoint, you can make a matrix for Labor as well. With Labor Breakpoints, you can also make more than one matrix and have it apply to various properties of the item labor is being applied to like Insulated or Non-Insulated.

Finding the Right Price & Labor Tables

While all you need for ProdInfo is an ID on an ITM and matching ID entry in the ProdInfo Database, Price and Labor need an extra step.

Price and Labor can have multiple tables to help you organize the values or even manage the price for the same item from multiple suppliers. To handle this, you set the tables in the ITM properties. This is true for both Product Listed ITM’s as well as Non-Product Listed ITM’s.

Setting these tables tells Fabrication which table to look in to find either the ID or the Breakpoint table which uses size and property criteria to apply to the ITM.

The following image shows where those tables are configured in the Costing tab of the ITM properties.

M-Rate is were the Price of the material comes from. This is set typically for bought items where you pay a set price. If you leave this set to “None“, material pricing would be calculated on a “Price per Pound” formula based on the material weight. This is typically done for Fabricated Sheetmetal fittings where the weight of the Sheetmetal is calculated based on area and gauge and then priced per pound. For piping or bought items, this table would typically point to a table that contains the pricing.

F-Rate is where you select the Fabrication Table to use to look up the Breakpoint Table or ID if Product listed labor. This is most commonly set to “None” for Piping items or other bought items where you just buy them but don’t fabricate them. It’s usually set to a specific table for Sheetmetal fittings which you fabricate and want to calculate fabrication labor.

E-Rate – This table is for Installation Labor. The “E” in “E-Rate” stands for “Erection” if that helps you remember. This will be set for most contractors who are installing duct or piping. It would typically be set to “None” if you were a fabricator only selling to others who install.

Summary

Hopefully this helps give you an idea how pricing, labor and product information functions (at a high level) in Autodesk Fabrication. There’s a lot more strategy and nuance you can get into but this is a good place to start understanding the basics of how it all works.

Autodesk Fabrication Scripting – Did You Know?

21 Jan 2021 Darren Young

In the list of COD Scripting updates I just posted, there’s a couple undocumented functions that have been on my list to explore for more than a few years. I’ve finally gotten to them and figured out what they do.

I won’t comment on how long it took me to actually explore what I had listed in my “To Research” list for years other than to say, Procrastination is a Virtue for those with no Patience.

So without further delay…here you go….

Output Function

This first one is the OUTPUT function. You can call it a couple different ways, with and without parenthesis just like the DEBUG function. It doesn’t really seem to matter. It’s really kind of a worthless function in my opinion.

Not only does it only work in CAMduct and ESTmep (not CADmep) it really isn’t that helpful. It just outputs a message to the Console window. I was initially hopeful it would allow me to “script” some of the secret Console command but no such luck. It’s just a message.

You can see in the COD Code editor the below with both syntax examples…

When you run the script, it’ll call up the Console and display the text you specified. You can see from the following example, it doesn’t even space the text when you call it multiple times. Even tried embedding a Carriage Return in the string and still no luck automating via the Console.

Breakpoint Command

The other command is much more helpful and something most folks don’t know about. I have run into a couple now who knew but most it’s not known. I wish I knew years ago…it’s actually a small step closer to what you’d expect in a modern IDE (Integrated Development Environment).

The Breakpoint function calls up the panel on the right. It displays the values of all your variables. You can see how the value of the “z” variable is displayed. When you hit a Breakpoint, code execution stops until you hit the green arc’d arrow. Code execution then continues until you get to the next Breakpoint if any.

You can access the COD Script editor in CAMduct or ESTmep using the FILE pulldown menu. You can also use the editor in CADmep but unfortunately, there’s no way to display it without writing intentionally wrong code to cause your program to fail and display it. You can then use the editor like you do in ESTmep or CAMduct.

One thing to note, BREAKPOINT only appears to work when you execute code from the Script Editor. If you call it from AutoLISP using (executescript “myscript.cod”) or the EXECUTESCRIPT command in CADmep or by right clicking in your Takeoff items in ESTmep or CAMduct, it runs without stopping your code. This means you can leave the breakpoints in your code and edit/debug via the script editor but not have to remove them when executing them un a production setting.

Fabrication Scripting Updates

17 Jan 2021 Darren Young

Autodesk Fabrication Scripting resources have had a few updates. Here’s a summary of the changes…

Autodesk Fabrication: Best Practice #10

19 Apr 2019 Darren Young

Don’t use Ancillaries with Breakpoints inside an Ancillary Kit.

Ancillaries are virtual items you can add to your Fabrication configuration. ESTmep users use Ancillaries to help quantify cost and labor. Material quantification for purchasing and/or fabrication is another use for Ancillaries. These are virtual items because they typically don’t affect modeling or coordination. They aren’t even typically drawn yet they are critical to your fabrication as a purchased, fabricated or installed item.

Database view of an Ancillary entry

At times, you many need multiple Ancillaries associated with an item. However the fabrication software typically only allows you to assign a single ancillary to an item or database entry like a connector. For this reason, Autodesk Fabrication includes a type of entry called an “Ancillary Kit” in which you place multiple Ancillaries.

These Ancillary Kits are where you can group multiple Ancillaries that are often used together. A Bolt, Nut and Washers are a good example of an Ancillary Kit.

Database view of an Ancillary Kit entry

Ancillary / Kit Breakpoints

Often, Ancillary items are defined by the size of the item they are associated with. As an example, a flange gasket would be different depending on the type and size of flange it’s used with. You can configure an Ancillary to have Breakpoints to reference a different parts depending on the size of the item the Ancillary is associated with.

Database view of an Ancillary with Breakpoints

Just like Ancillariess, an Ancillary Kit can also have Breakpoints. Using a flange as our example again, depending on the type and size of a flange, or what it’s connecting to (another flange, valve, pump) it can have different bolt/nut sizes and quantities. You would manage this using an Ancillary Kit with Breakpoints.

Database view of an Ancillary Kit with Breakpoints

Nested Breakpoints

If you watched the example images closely, you can see Autodesk’s own database breaks this Best Practice rule. The rule is to never add Ancillaries that use Breakpoints to an Ancillary Kit. Here’s how to keep that straight…

  • Yes – Ancillary in Ancillary Kit
  • No – Ancillary w/Breakpoints in Ancillary Kit
  • Yes – Ancillary in Ancillary Kit with breakpoints
  • No – Ancillary w/Breakpoints in Ancillary Kit w/Breakpoints

I’ve not tested Autodesk’s configuration for reporting accuracy. I have enough work managing my own fabrication configuration. However I did create a sample of my own and submitted to Autodesk support. After demonstrating inconsistent results with my sample, their recommended guidance was not to use Ancillaries with Breakpoints in an Ancillary Kit.

Based on testing in other data sets, I would say this is sound advice. Even if you can get it to work, the setup and configuration is less intuitive and confusing. Your Ancillary Kit can reference different Ancillary types using different Breakpoint criteria. The Ancillary Kit could also have conflicting Breakpoint criteria (e.g. Length x Width vs Diameter) compared to the Ancillary.

Keeping this Best Practice can create more Ancillary entries as well as make building Ancillary Kits a little more time consuming. But the results will be more predictable and what’s really happening in your configuration will be more obvious and less obscure. Even where Breakpointed Ancillaries do function within an Ancillary Kit, it’s advised to avoid this where possible.